EP #51 The AMP Advantage: A Game-Changer for Email Marketing Success

EP #51 The AMP Advantage: A Game-Changer for Email Marketing Success

About this Podcast

In today’s episode of the ‘For The Love Of Emails’ podcast, we welcome Dmitry Kudrenko – CEO, Stripo, with host Matthew Vernhout – VP, Deliverability, Netcore.

Dmitry Kudrenko, an industry veteran with over 12 years of experience, has  an astute eye for trends, he not only keeps a close watch on industry developments but also plays an influential role in shaping them. Dmitry’s expertise is widely recognized, evident in the numerous workshops and lectures he has conducted on email marketing. Notably, he has delved into cutting-edge topics such as AMP technology, providing invaluable insights to professionals in the field. Dmitry’s overarching mission is to revolutionize email marketing by making it more accessible for businesses and more impactful for their subscribers.

In this podcast, they discussed:
What new opportunities can AMP-powered emails open up for email marketers?
How will AMP technology benefit email marketing campaigns compared to traditional design approaches?
Why should more Internet Service Providers show support for AMP emails?
How can you tackle the challenges of sending email marketing campaigns to a multilingual audience?
Tips for implementing a fallback email that gives a similar experience as AMP emails
Advice and resources for marketers getting started with AMP
Episode Transcripts

Intro  (00:06)

You’re listening to the ‘For the Love of Emails Podcast’ powered by Netcore, a weekly show dedicated to helping email marketers, marketing enthusiasts, and professionals of all walks engage, grow, and retain customers through reliable, smart, and effective email communication and engagement. Discover actionable ways to increase ROI and deliver value through email innovations, personalization optimization, email deliverability, and email campaigns. No fluff. Tune in to hear best practices and tactical solutions from the best thought leaders and practitioners. Master your email communication now.


Matthew Vernhout  (00:40)

Hello, and welcome to another episode of the ‘For the Love of Email’ Podcast. I’ll be your host today – Matthew Vernhout, Vice President of deliverability for Netcore Cloud within the European and American regions. Before we begin, I have some exciting news to share. We’re all set to launch our Email Benchmark Report dealing with all things AMP. Get ready to read about all the secrets of email success and achievements, in some cases, a staggering 1,000% boost in ROI for customers implementing AMP. This report is set to reveal the full potential of interactive AMP emails like you’ve never seen before. With data analysis of 1 billion Netcore AMP emails, insights from 25+ industry experts, and over 100 intuitive use cases, you’ll discover unique strategies and tips to level up your AMP email campaigns. So, say goodbye to drop-offs and frictions, say hello to streamlined interactions, and keep your customers engaged. Follow our LinkedIn page right away to stay on top of all the upcoming episodes and details, as well as when the report launches. 


And, you know, I’m excited that, at the same time we’re talking about this report, we have somebody who loves AMP email as much as Netcore does on today’s show. So it couldn’t have been better timing. I have with me today a seasoned entrepreneur with 10 years of experience in email marketing and 20 years in software development. He’s a firm believer in the Lean principles of development, has successfully implemented them into his companies, and has worked to create efficient marketing strategies. Please welcome Dmitry Kudrenko, CEO of Stripo email.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (02:27)

Hi, thank you. Hello Matthew, and thank you for welcoming me to the show. Hello to everybody here.


Matthew Vernhout  (02:37)

Yeah, please. I always like to start my show with a brief introduction. I know I read some of the stuff that I prepared about you. But tell us in your own words about yourself and your journey as the CEO of an email technology company.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (02:51)

Yeah. So yes, my name is Dmitry Kudrenko, and I am the CEO of Stripo; Stripo is an email design platform. It’s a place where our customers create email and export to any systems they use for sending. So we’re very focused on email creation. And we created a tool that allows us to do it fast, is advanced, and without technical skills. About me, I’m accidentally in this industry, in email marketing. I don’t know even one person who dreamed of being an email marketer from childhood – yeah, even me, I’m just a graduate of applied mathematics. I thought my call into this world was to do math and computer things. I’m a coder. It’s a person who usually hates marketers, and marketers hate this person; if you ask any company how they communicate with a development team, usually, there is no common language between them. And marketers don’t really love mathematics, but they have to love it because marketing is a science about numbers. So, I’m a developer who became an entrepreneur doing all this. Doing software for marketers is how I became a marketer as well. So speaking with marketers for over 20 years, I pretend to understand marketing. So in short about me, I was a developer who became an entrepreneur, and people now know me as a marketer.


Matthew Vernhout  (04:51)

You know, I have a very similar background. I started as a developer, moved into network operations, moved into deliverability, and organically learned marketing. I think I took one marketing course in college. So over the last 23 years, I’ve learned more about marketing than any college course could ever teach me.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (05:16)

In my country, I’m originally from Ukraine; I even lived in Ukraine. Now, since three years, I have been in the US, but there is no science that can teach you to do email marketing, even with communication. It’s something that we learn ourselves from our experience, very little from books; there aren’t a lot of books here. So because we do a lot of experiments, we have our own experiences which we share with people. And all that we know is because we communicate with each other, it’s a pretty unique experience.


Matthew Vernhout  (06:04)

It is a unique experience in the fact that, as an industry, we collaborate across companies more frequently than people probably would expect. Exactly. So digging in, we’re going to talk about AMP. We love AMP. You love AMP. Customers love AMP. But, when you started building your platform to enable AMP content creation, you looked at it and said, Oh, we’re going to transform marketing; we’re going to make it so that everyone loves email. So when you started down that approach, you started to look at the tools you were building and all the different things. What was that vision? Like the idea of making email so effective that everyone would love it all over again, it would be a renaissance of email?


Dmitry Kudrenko  (07:01)

Great question. But before we start, let me argue about your thesis that everyone loves AMP. I would say only a few people love AMP. And everybody else hates AMP. Because there are so many stakeholders in this industry. So to send AMP emails, email clients have to support it. But you always have to persuade them to do something. Google did it. And nobody believes Google because Google always creates something innovative and shuts the technology. Nobody wants to invest in something that will die soon. Then they did open source and created an alliance with Microsoft, with Yahoo, with Mail.ru. It was a pretty unique experience. 


But the sender is important here as well. It’s not only about email clients; senders must send multiparty mail along with AMP. 


For our audience, listeners, just to understand how AMP works, AMP is an interactive email. AMP is a technology that allows users to submit forms from email, do some interactivity without leaving email, and update data in real time in email. Usually, you have plain text and HTML. And the email supports both parts. If you still read an email on a Blackberry or some email reading device, your operative is a text part of the email. If you have a rich editor, you have HTML; if you have an advanced email client, you have AMP HTML. So you have to provide three parts at the same time. 


If the sender does not allow this, it will not work. Email clients don’t want to do this because nobody can send this, and marketers have no idea how to send this. So you have to catch everybody just to nudge them to do something with you without real examples, real results that they can measure easily. It’s a huge challenge. 


Now, why I love this is because we realize the need to improve user experience in email for everybody. I have this like a mission in the Email Markup Consortium; I really like it: Improve the email experience for everyone, for clients, for senders, for marketers, and for recipients first of all. But it is stuck because of email standards. 


Everybody wants to do something unique. I mean, Outlook has its VML language; Microsoft has its ActionScript; Gmail always has markups and additional annotations; AMP; Apple supports CSS that is not supported by others. So everybody wants to do something unique to improve the experience for email clients, but there are no standards. I’m not too fond of this. I feel like my mission is to improve and change this. I thought the best thing to do was to make friends in Alliance with corporations, but it never worked. Apple would – maybe one day, but not in the near future, do the same things as Google does. I cannot change this. But what I can change is, I can help new ideas to spread much faster because if a new idea has no feedback from the audience or from people who are using it, then it will just die. And like my mission to make all good things, make email different and improve email. And it’s not only about AMP. In Gmail, it’s like a promo tab. Yeah, the promo tab is a great idea to change the user behavior – how they operate with promo emails; and why we have to order the emails by ‘sending time’ is because the user would like to see the best offer for them. But for this, we must provide information about expiry time, promotional discounts, descriptions, product carousel, etc. 


With AMP, I wanted to change the way people work with them. It’s not necessarily just static text. It could be some rich text like HTML or extended advanced HTML. So it worked to motivate me to start work here. And then, I realized that it’s additional work for marketers who have to create two content parts. And these are standards that nobody understands. With so many impediments and obstacles on the way to implementing this, you should configure everything because even one single error there would stop your AMP HTML. I love this idea that you must configure SPF, DMARC, DKIM, and all the security stuff to be whitelisted for sending the AMP emails. So it improves all our behavior – trust, and transparency, and it improves all industries. And the user experience will be much better. So I decided to change this.


 And the first thing we did, we tried in Stripo to combine HTML and AMP HTML as one email. So you don’t need to create two versions, HTML and AMP, and synchronize them. You create only one. And sometimes, as you do, visit adaptive design for mobile, the same height for mobiles. So the same height for HTML shows for AMP HTML and vice versa. When you operate only with one email, it works well. And another thing, you never need to think about AMP additional HTML code because it’s hard and many mistakes can be made, so few people understand how to help you, even in our professional community. So we did drag and drop standard blocks like a carousel, accordion, or forms, but we also tried to do advanced things like gamified controls. Like, I don’t know, like a quiz. 


 You have to stop me because I can start to speak at a stretch.


Matthew Vernhout  (14:45)

So just thinking about it. The general idea is that emails have been very static for a long time. We’ve got this great new opportunity to offer engagement that consumers want, reduced friction for browse cart, abandon cart, add to cart, or whatever happens to be interactive elements. As you said, gaming, we built a Wordle version for email, crossword for email, those types of fun things. But even, you know, reducing the friction for consumers obviously increases engagement for the brand. And increased engagement typically means better deliverability. 


So, it’s a ton of work, like you said, but when you have a good partner and a good template builder, it helps make those things easier and drives adoption. So yeah, there’s a lot of room there for immense growth. And you’re right; getting the platforms on board is the next challenge. We have to. It’s a chicken and egg theory, right? You have some providers doing it, no brands doing it; you have a lot of brands doing it, no providers doing it; how do you balance that out? And we’re seeing different pieces of the industry as well with whether it’s AMP, Google and Yahoo, and Mail.ru supporting it, or with things like BIMI, where we’re seeing more providers slowly come on board, adopting it, these changes don’t happen overnight. And the more use cases that people can see that prove that it works, that increases customer satisfaction in the end. That’s what everybody wants; mailbox providers want a good experience for their consumers. Marketers want a good experience for their consumers. And consumers want a good experience for their own needs.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (16:43)

Exactly. I want to highlight what you just said. Because it needs to be apparent that the more time they spend on your emails, there is more deliverability which means more trust from brands. And that good design improves deliverability, which is not very obvious, but that’s how it works. And the question you just mentioned, that’s exactly the challenge. So who first – like chicken or egg – who first has to support email – clients or email senders? Or just marketers who understand this? Who first has to send a request to support this? We have a very good example of Hotmail that added support and then canceled the support, saying we don’t have enough requests. It haunts me because it means I wasn’t there in time to support them. Before they even launched widely, I understood that I wanted to touch something new, even if it would not work. I just feel my responsibility here.


And how will we help more senders support AMP? We have customers who created AMP content, and then they are blocked from sending it because the sender does not support them. I always do the same, ask your sender to support and connect., But if a lot of your customers will say: okay, do you plan to support AMP because it’s a modern thing? I would like to be real: your system does not fit me because you didn’t support the new technologies for years for AMP and still do not support it. And it changes a lot because when all senders consent, it means that more email clients have to support it, and it becomes standard and it’s open source. If it’s open source, it means that you can control it. 


And another thing, we have to write something like a public document or petition to MailChimp or to some much more popular system in the world to support AMP. When all systems support it, it drives forward.


Matthew Vernhout  (19:26)

If brands want to use AMP, we support it. They can come work with Netcore. We love clients who want to adopt AMP.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (19:31)

That’s why I publish a lot of cases where we created hundreds of games because games engage people. It’s something that’s like: okay, I never saw this in an email. I want to play this in an email. I want to interact with your brand. Are you innovative or something? Indeed, it works much easier, and a significant number shows that.  When you have some quiz for NPS in email, it always performs better as you’ll have a lead through an HTML form, and you will have all the personalization data. When you submit it from your email, it’s trusted data. You cannot just replace the email because it works only on your email clients. You cannot forward it; because when you forward an AMP email, only the HTML part will be forwarded.


Matthew Vernhout  (20:39) 

So when it comes to AMP and how brands are implementing it, one of the questions I see frequently really comes down to the idea of load times and bandwidth usage. And then a lot of people are using a mobile device for email. The Google mobile client supports AMP, and the Yahoo mobile client supports AMP. How do you address people’s concerns when talking about how it impacts load time and consumer experience that way?  


Dmitry Kudrenko  (21:16)  

What I think is that it’s not impacting delivery time or sending time. Certainly the email is bigger, but it was a problem when you had a fully restricted HTML connection. Now, it’s not a problem. And I will say even that AMP HTML is more compact than regular HTML because of some data you may have from real-time; it’s always like ‘in advance’ to HTML. So you have HTML, plus you have AMP HTML. The common size of the general email is bigger, but it’s not a problem. The much bigger problem is your images, which are one megabyte, to attach to an email.


Matthew Vernhout  (22:06)  

So we’re not facing new problems is what you’re saying? We’re still dealing with image size, we’re still dealing with bandwidth issues, mobile network capacity, those types of things. But the AMP itself isn’t adding to that problem. It’s just the same problems we’ve always had.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (22:21)  

What we saw in the case of Indeed, what Indeed does is they publish the vocation in the email. And usually, there are a lot of them. And for each vocation, they have to provide a lot of data -, the industry, the company, the requirements, a lot of data. And we all know about the restriction of 100k from Gmail. And what they did is they created for each vocation an image and put it into email because the image is less heavy; but the email became much heavier. 


In AMP, you can have one list and get the data updated in real time. And you could do a very rich design of it. And you can have much more data for fewer kilobytes, right? So we don’t think about AMP either.  You have a restriction of 100k for HTML; we don’t have this restriction for AMP. So it’s like a new opportunity that you have to use. 


We all know that interactivity performs better. There are a lot of numbers that prove how you can do this interactivity in email. Usually, you have a fallback; AMP is not the only thing. You can do almost everything – you can do this in AMP using HTML and CSS, and fallbacks. There is a lot of code, a lot of code, and a lot of knowledge on how to do this. 


We were at Mailcon in Las Vegas. And I had a workshop together with Cyrill from Mailix. So what we did was we took the AMP component; I don’t know it could be a quiz, it could be gamification, like a memory game. And we did fallback using HTML and CSS and how to make it for non-technical people to generate the same code. It was challenging, and we just tried to test our concept of how it works. But HTML is always bigger than AMP HTML and significantly more complicated. 


So AMP will change the user experience. Please, I don’t know if somebody – a lead, technical, or product person – in Apple is listening to us. Please do AMP for Apple clients. If somebody from Apple is watching, listen to us. Please implement AMP if you want to make progress with email.


Matthew Vernhout  (25:15)  

Love it. Move email forward. That’s the mantra we’re going to go with for AMP. Move it forward. One of the things you talked about when we were preparing for today’s call was, you know, the idea of being in Europe and you being in Ukraine. Clearly, there’s a lot of other languages spoken in the region, right? We don’t necessarily have it as much in North America; it’s predominantly like English, French, and Spanish are the three predominant languages. Clearly, there are other languages spoken all the time. But, you know, we were talking about the idea of building messages for a multilingual audience. And you talked a bit about some of the challenges or some of the strategies when you’re planning that type of scenario, with your messaging. I get messages occasionally, where it’s like the French portion on top. They just literally copy and paste the English portion below. You have to scroll all the way down the page to read it, or vice versa. They put English at the top or the front; they’re not sending you a preferred language of email; they’re just sending you one email with two languages in it. How do you address that in a multilingual society? Where you know, you have one person speaking German, one speaking Ukrainian, one French, and one Spanish; how do you deal with that?


Dmitry Kudrenko  (26:38) 

First of all, I think about multilingual stuff as personalization stuff. We all think that the future of email is personalization, it’s part of the email. And the key to the success of email is personalization. And personalization is the right message to the right person at the right moment of time. And the right message is in the right context, using the right data and the right language. So language is key to personalization, which is speaking the same language as the customer. And here AMP, I will say, is not the best tool because it’s only for a part of the email clients; you always have to support multilingual email for all clients.


There are so many challenges to it. First, I even broke them into categories. One category is management, which is very different because management here means you have to operate with more templates with some additional data sources like spreadsheets, JSON files, and some resource files. You have to operate these segments and analytics. So when you create an email, and then you decide to use different languages, and then you decide to change something, you have to operate with bulk emails and the approval process and the testing process. So much additional work! But it’s not only limited to email; you also have to take care of your unsubscribe page, your site, your sample, about other channels like text messages, web boost, mobile communication, and everything else. So you only have to start this process, and it never ends. But even when you do this, you have to understand that you have to personalize the dynamic data, your merge texts, and your images because images must also be personalized if you have attached that. 


I had just bought the tickets, by the way, to the US, and I was in Europe when I bought it.They told me that it was for 4/10. For us, it means that I bought it for October fourth. I thought, okay, but then I realized that it was for the tenth of April. So it’s different for different countries, different everything. And when we speak about these different measurement units, it means localization. Localization is not only for minor things and the length of the words; there are so many things you have to care about, including laws, GDPR and CCDP. So many things… and deliverability are different in different countries and regions… and colors are different. So you have to take care of so many different things when you do multilingual stuff, but it works. It just performs because of your speech. My mother, for example, would never use Uber if Uber had not localized because she doesn’t understand English, so it’s important. With AMP here, I think it’s good to have dynamization, but I think it’s more like a fancy thing. But not required here.


Matthew Vernhout  (30:20)

I think a good use case for AMP might be using AMP email to update preferences.  Tell us if you prefer a different language than the one we’re currently sending you in, update the form, and the next email you get comes in your preferred language or preferred currency. 


Dmitry Kudrenko  (30:41)

Yes, it’s a great example to change something. Let’s say that I’m in email; why I’m in email is because I’m checking my email, I work in email, and when you move me out of the email, it changes my intention to work with email. They started to work with some landing page on some site, but they had to switch back and remember, oh, I was in email, what was I doing, I forgot. So when you do updates, it’s not necessary the language or preference settings, or the subscription page, or something else – doesn’t matter, it could be anything – so when you submit forms without leaving emails, when we do something with the data without leaving emails, it is a case. Because otherwise, for other email clients who don’t support AMP, you have to leave to some page, authorize and do all the stuff.


Matthew Vernhout  (31:43)

I think it’s important that as brands move to multilingual, they don’t try to go all languages at once, right? You can’t do every language in the world at one time. You do one at a time. You do your English first, then your French, then your German, you pick them off as you go based on priority from where your subscribers are, and then offer them the idea that we now offer all of our content in German. Would you like it in German? Yes or no. And then you can change the language. Again, you can do it in HTML too. It’s good to do them, grow them one at a time, as opposed to trying to be everything to everyone all at once.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (32:30)  

You cannot do this for big messages. For real HTML, 100k is a very important limitation, and I don’t think that it would work. I would segment them and do dynamic content, and I love AMP as it allows me to get the real data. But what if you don’t have an internet connection now? We spoke about how to adapt your email if you don’t have a connection with images, yeah? Because you have to code your email and care about all the image titles, alternative text and image size, and the background, and how you keep your images together with text and email. But it’s the same for AMP. Even if your email client supports AMP, if you open it in a place where you don’t have an internet connection, only HTML will be allowed for you. Yeah? Because you cannot get real-time data. Or if you open your email in one month because you remember some important information, there will only be an HTML version because AMP expires—only regular HTML works. 


So when we speak about multilingual stuff, at its core, it’s not the responsibility of AMP. AMP is a great example to use to update preferences. A great example to submit some data. It is a great example of abandoned carts because you have a fallback of what you had when you sent an email. But for recommendations, you have real data when you operate with AMP content.


Matthew Vernhout  (34:20)  

You’ve mentioned fallback a few times, so as people are planning their content or maybe building an AMP message, what tips would you give them for implementing fallback that, you know, for those who don’t render AMP to get a similar experience if you will, without AMP?


Dmitry Kudrenko  (34:45) 

For now, AMP is an opportunity to improve engagement and user behavior in your email. But you have to take care of generic email: first, AMP is like additional stuff; second, it is not supported by Apple. So it is still 30% or sometimes 50% of the audience who can operate with AMP. But you have to care about all your audience, even if they open in Gmail without an internet connection. So the HTML message first, not technology. I told you that I am from an IT background, and it was a very popular agile approach. And the first way of agile is through individuals and interactions over processes and tools. So technology is great. But first, you have to care about the message you send, even the text version of the email- you have to care about it. That message, is it delivered? If there are no images, is it delivered? If there is no interactivity, do you have a button to play? If it’s gamification, to play a game in the web version? Or to see the email in a browser if it’s possible? So first always – I love AMP – but first, you need to care about the message you deliver in all channels in all multipart email text, HTML, and certainly AMP.


Matthew Vernhout  (36:21)  

So, do you advise people to design the HTML part? And then upgrade it to AMP for those that support it? Or do you tell people to design the AMP part? And then have fallback be part of it.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (36:35)  

I use both ways: for some emails, first I create an HTML and then think, okay, how can I improve it using AMP? Sometimes I do AMP first and think, okay, AMP works great.  How can I take care of typical users (HTML users)? Let’s give an example: if I sent them the quiz by email, or some NPS feedback form, first I will do it in AMP because it’s my message, it’s the reason I am sending an email. I want to ask them to fill out the form in email. And then, what if you cannot do this? How can I support you? I’m preparing a fallback. 


One thing, also, I must mention is the key thing – it’s time-consuming to write them constantly. And, you know, what is in common between SpaceX Falcon Nine and email, I always say, is it’s more reusable modules. So creating one rocket is extremely expensive to do on your launch. But when you reuse this and just refuel, you can do it… I don’t know, every day, okay, once per week – in one rocket. The same goes for AMP, creating one interactive element can cost a lot. But when you create a module and have a module to reuse and configure it with different data, you can use it in different emails very easily. It just makes this, like, accessible. It’s just easy to add in email; you don’t need to think like a developer every time you need to think as a marketer. I am a developer, and I understand that a marketer who is always just learning user behavior has to think about the code and the new technologies. It’s not his responsibility. I think It is important to think about the technical stuff as reusable things. In Stripo, we use a modular architecture to reuse them. Every module we create, you can use in any system you use for sending. Just reuse all the modules we created. We created 1000s of them.


Matthew Vernhout  (39:11)

Where do you tell people to start with AMP – those that have never done it? Where do you get them to sort of start like a simple form, an NPS score? Like, what’s the dip my toe in and start trying it out kind of scenario?


Dmitry Kudrenko  (39:27)  

I always suggest starting with something very simple. In all emails, I add a feedback form; if you have a question, you can write here, or I can answer by email or maybe NPS. And you have to check then that it works. How many people interact with it? And they really can send AMP in all our workshops or masterclasses. The first thing we do is send just a carousel with three images, nothing else. But when it works, what the marketer feels is that I can do this. It’s not rocket science. And if I can do this, can I improve this somehow? So because before you see it yourself, it feels like magic; it’s for people who have budgets. It’s for somebody who has time to plan this. They first have to understand that it’s just an additional five minutes of work and it’s easy to do. So what I would recommend is you start and see your recipient’s reactions and measure efficiency. 


But know that the carousel doesn’t sell things, accordion doesn’t sell things, and forms don’t sell; you need to understand why you’re adding visibility here. You don’t send AMP because AMP is a great technology, you send AMP to improve user behavior. And you have to understand what will improve it, you have to understand your audience and what they desire. And that has to be the reason. I would suggest thinking first about customers. Avoid all obstacles, technical obstacles, and send as simple an email as possible without things that don’t matter. Just prove to yourself that you can do this and then think about your customers and do real AMP, do real interaction in emails.


Matthew Vernhout  (41:54)

So you said a couple of times that AMP is complicated, it’s hard to learn, and that’s why we build these tools. If there was a resource out there that you wanted to point somebody to, to say, if you want to go and learn more about AMP, what resource would you point them to?


Dmitry Kudrenko  (42:13)  

Yeah, thank you for asking this question. I would recommend using our blog. And we created free courses. Free courses, where you can learn how to send AMP, how to create some advanced elements, how to use AMP components, to create your own code if you like coding, or how to reuse what we already created. We have more than 10 different courses about AMP. So I recommend you try them first. And there is so little information, really practical information, about AMP, to be honest.


Matthew Vernhout  (43:03)

I would also say deconstruct other people’s code, right? If you’re getting AMP emails and receiving them as a consumer, go in and look at how they are built; that’s a great way to learn as well. At least you’ll get the front-end part, you may not get the back-end learning, but you’ll get the front-end learning and see how people are plugging in different elements. Dmitry, I want to thank you for joining me on the show. If anyone wants to reach out, ask questions, or learn more about you or your company, what’s the best way for them to reach out?


Dmitry Kudrenko  (43:32) 

First of all, thank you for having me – to everyone who listened for almost 50 minutes. And where you can connect with me: I’m very available on LinkedIn; the best way would be to send me a message on LinkedIn; I’m very open to any questions. And we will do any assistance because it’s just like our mission to improve things here to make email better. And again, if you’re from Apple and MailChimp, contact me directly.


Matthew Vernhout  (44:23)

If you are a mailbox provider or an MUA developer, if you are an ESP that has not implemented AMP yet, now you know who to reach out to with questions.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (44:34)  

That is a great takeaway, a call to action. And for all the people who have listened to us, please do this, do your first step, and give feedback to us on how it works for you.


Matthew Vernhout  (44:47) 

Absolutely. So once again, thank you for joining us; we’ll put your LinkedIn in the show notes so people can view the notes and get your contact info that way. I love talking about email in general; I love talking about deliverability. AMP is really exciting for a lot of different things as well. So I’m glad we were able to have a conversation about it. And talking about some of the challenges but also talking about a lot of the benefits of working with AMP. So just one last time. Thank you again. And if you have any questions about the show or comments about the show, please do remember [email protected]; you can reach us to talk about any of our episodes – past episodes or current episodes. And don’t forget to hit those like and subscribe buttons if you enjoyed the show. Dmitry, thanks again.


Dmitry Kudrenko  (45:38)

Thank you. 


Outro (45:39)

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