During the current lockdown, we caught up Yuda Wirawan, CMO at PT. Central Asia Financial (Jagadiri); one of Indonesia’s leading Insurance players. In a freewheeling chat, Yuda highlights the following:
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Yuda Wirawan: Hi!
Prashant Pramhans: How are you?
Yuda Wirawan: Sorry it was disconnected a bit. So where are you now Prashant?
Prashant Pramhans: I’m in Jakarta, very much like just a hundred kilometers away from you. And I think that the time has come up in terms of Covid wherein all these sea levels have to come together and talk about some big-time thoughts and how the leaders of the organizations are looking at Covid as a scenario. How has it impacted organizations across the world and how do you see the post-Covid scenario? So I introduced Saket, who’s our Chief Revenue Officer, and Saket, Yuda is Chief Marketing Officer at Jagadiri.
Saket Kumar Jha: Great! How are you doing?
Yuda Wirawan: I am good. Yeah, stay home.
Saket Kumar Jha: So Yuda we just wanted to kind of have a discussion with you to understand how things have been for insurance vertical so we just wanted to have your insights on the overall, how it has been for insurance factor vertical, so would you be able to kind of just give us some insight that from the time it started happening? What are the things you see kind of impacting the overall insurance vertical?
Yuda Wirawan: First of all those companies whose absence, I was quite lucky because I have very high involvement in AI. AI in Indonesia is like Insurance Associations. So I’ve been involved in many activities from the life insurance industry perspective. Well, the first thing that is facing a big impact for the insurance industry are those companies who are working with agents face-to-face. So those companies that we’ve seen and we’ve heard from about 60 companies in life insurance and more than I think eighty or a hundred companies in general insurance, whose model is based on a face-to-face agent facing difficulties. Yeah. They are all facing a big impact, a huge impact on these arrangements because now the agents cannot meet the customers face-to-face. The second is there’s a regulation which the life insurance industry associations are trying to push the old Jacob for this one is to release an immediate regulation where the agents can see the customers with the technology because the regulation stated that the agents must meet the customers face-to-face means meeting in person. The regulations did not mention anything about the use of technology like video conferencing like phone calls because it will be considered as another channel or digital channel. The agent is predominantly still on the face to face where the customers need agents even though some of the insurance members in the association is already finally evolving themself where the agents now using technology like WhatsApp calls, video calls to meet with the prospects, even though that Ojika has not given any additional regulations or relaxations in terms of can be agent use technology to meet the prospect or the customers for non-face-to-face basis using technology, but some of the insurance companies from what I see is already implementing that. The use of technology to meet the consumers or the prospect on a face-to-face basis. Those are the companies that are having a big impact on face-to-face agents. The second big impact is nowhere big. Well since a particular for Jagadira I think we have been, luckily for us, that we’ve been integrating some other technology like digital and our main Channel with direct marketing telemarketing. So we do not see any huge impact on it. However, the impact was only due to the regulations where we have to cut down 50% of our agents in the place. So we cannot have full 100% agents working in telemarketing. Because we have to cut down about 50% of our telemarketers to work shifting bases. So this actually impacts us in terms of total numbers where we cannot meet our target. However, in terms of productivity, we see we have uplift about 25 to 30 percent of responses from the customers where they finally now see the understanding that they finally understand and see that insurance is something needed for the customers. When we see the increment in the conversion rate, what it means is that the agents have been more productive but since we have cut down 50% of our sales quantity so means it’s also a sales as well I think it has been cut down about 20-30 percent. So we have a big impact on that certain point. Even though we believe in productivity, we cannot steal from the pop-up and get everything there. We have a target this year. So after two months, I think it will be implemented. We see a decline in the lots of sales that we’re getting right now. So I think those are the two biggest impacts that we see from the industry point of view and a second part is from us. So luckily as I mentioned to you. We do not really get a very high impact because we’re not working on an agent basis. We are in Direct marketing, Digital marketing. So we still see people coming through our website and buying and purchasing insurance and we still see people coming to our Facebook, our Instagram and looking for a second solution for them to be covered.
Prashant Pramhans: I think I like to note so we can say that the digital transformation has been led by CEO and CMO at Jagadiri.
Yuda Wirawan: Yes, exactly. We were quite lucky because we heard about our colleagues in the other industry. They get a hit of more than 80 to 90% because 80-90 percent of their business comes from agents. So they were having a huge impact. For us, we do not see that really huge drop down since we are on Direct marketing, Digital marketing. So yes, it was just unlucky that we have to cut down due to physical distancing regulation from the governors. We have to cut down some of the people due to shifting bases.
Prashant Pramhans: Yeah, we have noticed from an experience from some of the other brands in the country that it is actually a forceful Covid led digital transformation. People are trying to adapt in terms of Customer Communication Engagement and servicing them.
Yuda Wirawan: Exactly, so I think now after the Covid-19 all the industry, all the companies across the globe, especially in Indonesia will see that digital transformation is really a key point for them to really do a fast forward because something like this might happen in the upcoming future, so it is something that it would they need to be prepared. I think there’s quite a saying. It is quite a joke with my CEO saying that who are those that can transform the digital transfer, who are leading the digital transformations? One is the CEO and the second is Covid.
Prashant Pramhans: Correct. Correct. It’s a meme across all these social media immediately and your creator to a greater extent. It looks like an app because all of a sudden like say some of the RFPs are coming out for say email marketing or maybe website marketing. At the same time again, I think a bit has to be changed because at this point in time when you are quickly trying to save RFP might not be the right way to do it. It’s like you connect and close and remove fast
Yuda Wirawan: Yeah, as I mentioned I was so lucky that we have the entire infrastructure in place. We have all and plan digital experiences. We have now you guys having us with the CRM if we’re going to automate the automation faces later on. So I think we are all in place. So that’s why we are probably one of the companies now wily having that wily big or huge impact. It’s just probably as if our business is coming from the clients that probably give us a big impact, but for our direct marketing and telemarketing businesses now we lead that have a huge impact.
Saket Kumar Jha: I just wanted to understand that things have really changed for us at Netcore as well. Like we were also not kind of used to managing a team remotely work from home was a totally new concept like their few employees they did working from home, but not at a like everybody is working from home and then kind of managing it and then a lot of technology and option started happening like Zoom call, Google Hangouts. How has been the experience of managing your big team?
Yuda Wirawan: I think the first thing is that the leaders of the organizations need to be the one who needs to evolve and adapt into these kinds of situations. Again for us in particular, we are so lucky since our infrastructure, our system, our core system all can be remotely done. So when we’re doing UAT (Acceptance Testing) we can do it remotely, when we’re doing meetings- is just now we have to change these meetings into Zoom meetings or Hangout meetings. So I think there is no really big impact on us. But the one that needs to change first will be the direction from the leaders in terms of how the people or how the teams will be impacted by it and how will they behave on a daily basis during the changes. For example, the leaders in our management already decided that we will be having about two to three time’s daily calls. And during those two to three time’s daily calls, we already managed what are the priorities for the team to be settled? So we understand and everybody understands and we are all on the same page in terms of our deliverables and deliverables and what KPIs they need to do within a timeline or within a time period. So it is really the need of the leaders to see in a helicopter view what needs to be done and what needs to be done and needs to be run by the teams. So I think during these kinds of situations we will use a leadership role is very key. So to really have guidelines in terms of because when we work at the office, it was so easy to do some ad hoc basis. We can just have meetings every day. We can just have meetings every time of the week. So however with this one, we need to have a really rigorous schedule, timeline and that’s what we called a really key and that’s what is really important for us. It means setting the priorities and then having all the things understood about the priorities and everybody understands about the deliverables and the needs to overcome the deliverables or the KPIs as they’ve been set for the priorities being set. So I think that’s really the key. So I think it is lucky for us now. We are having I think we’ve been using some tools like using Google Drive so everybody can go into the Google Drive look at the priorities-where is the timeline, where is the deadlock. So it is open sharing folders and files where everybody can see and everybody can look at the progress on each of the priority samples.
Saket Kumar Jha: Yeah. I think that’s very meaningful. I think we experience that in Netcore also, in terms of setting up proper discipline virtual something which was kind of got into a place because when you are at home kind of casualness creeps in by default. So how do we kind of make that discipline as a part of the daily life and then we kind of one thing which really helped for us, like even for our internal meetings and all we kind of got into video calls rather than we kind of avoided lot of audio calls so that at least we can feel connected to each other when everybody is at their home. So I think that really worked for us to create that togetherness in this situation.
Yuda Wirawan: So I think there is another add-on that I would like to see. This is a very good moment for us to look at how the organization should work and try to work in the future. So working from home is one of the options that probably could bring more productivity to people. However, I might say this is now a really good moment or arrangement for a long time of period because I see some people now after being I think almost two and a half weeks being at home. I see their productivity starting to reduce. So this is something that we need to watch and overlook, including me. Now I just couldn’t resist when I see go downstairs and look at the bed and just try to stay down and follow the sudden. I don’t know if I was just falling asleep or taking a nap. There is something I see on the part of the team as well. So my point is, previously there have never been so many companies never thinking about having worked from home arrangement, especially in Indonesia. Now, they see that they see this as an opportunity to be more productive because I see during the first week everybody seems very very productive. And even it’s overwhelming because we have to meet so many people we have to assure that things are still in the right place and at the right time. But after two and a half weeks they were home and you can see some emotions starting to deteriorate as I mentioned working from home arrangement-it is good. So every company is an organization that needs to think about working from home arrangements, but it is not for a very long period of time, like more than three weeks or a month. That could bring your productivity down as well.
Saket Kumar Jha: Yeah, I think that’s true. So another thing Yuda, I just wanted to have your views on how marketing functions in terms of communication; what changes are brought to kind of cope up with the current situation in terms of marketing, in terms of communication. Did Jagadiri try out something new during this period or what kind of communication strategy, which you guys built around this time?
Yuda Wirawan: Well for the theme I think there are not any big issues since we are so eased with technology like using a Whatsapp video call, using Zoom call, using Hangout calls. All those tools using WebEx, you see all those kinds of tools available out there to just get in touch with the team and see how they are going. But one of the biggest challenges I believe is not just the marketing function itself. But how can we integrate because marketing is the core strategy of the aid of your organization? Because marketing drives the strategy with which our organization has to be able to be going. The biggest challenge is probably the integration interpretation, correlations between the other units like how we are going to discuss the operations, how we are going to manage with the IT team, with the legal team, with the finance team. Those are something that probably we still need to find out a better way to have communications interrelated departments. But in terms of strategy discussing with a team, I think as I mentioned to you since luckily we are at the forefront of using the technology. I think there are not many big issues in terms of this kind of arrangement for us. But however for the other teams like as I mentioned to you like those people who usually sit in the premises like operations, like IT, like Legal teams, like Finance teams; those are probably one of the challenges that you’re facing right now to really integrate with and connect with the other parties.
Saket Kumar Jha: We saw some of our clients kind of using a lot of Covid related communication in terms of standing by their kind of, we saw a lot of communication happening around what are the facilities which are available online to kind of make more clear communication to the customer so these are the services which they can avail online Lot of communication went around that during this period at least in last 3-4 weeks. At Jagadiri also, we kind of use a couple of this information to be shared with the customers?
Yuda Wirawan: First of all, as I mentioned to you that since we are mostly doing our customer experience and to an automatically so means like we have been sending e-policies so the policy Central to all through the emails. We’ve been sending Communications rigorously through emails. However, what we are trying to do now I believe Netcore has been helping us is how can we integrate to a WhatsApp business though to our organizations mean so we can have easier consumer access. Well, since we believe that Whatsapp is probably one of the biggest communication platforms the customers have today. So they can easily connect to us in Jagadiri in terms of asking questions about products, asking questions, making claims, and even filing claims to the WhatsApp business. The biggest third impact that we are now facing is since there ṣis a limitation where most of the courier companies were being forbidden to go out of the city. So this is something that we are now informing the customers that I’m sorry at this period of time, we will no longer be able to send you hard copies documents. So we will only be sending you e-documents like e-policies but if they do not have any emails or if they do not have any WhatsApp. Well, we are now sending them a link- a link to SMS. Well, they can click the link; they can download their e-policies. They can download all the policies then they can save it. If they still need more information then they can call our customer services to give you the explanations about the content of the policies. So I think those are one of the main challenges that we’re facing right now, but I believe since most seems from the first time that the company is being built. Everything is the basis so; it’s a policy and previously was a hundred percent for emails. But right now, we are now trying to build a WhatsApp business with Netcore as well as the automation behind the communication so means like whenever the customer having a birthday, any customers having a re-rate; so we do not need to have a team to run it manually and it will be on the triggered basis or the communications can easily be sent out to the customers. So I think that’s the phase that we’re facing right now. One of the biggest changes that we are now building is we’re trying to create a WhatsApp Business for our customers.
Prashant Pramhans: And also I would like to congratulate the Yuda considering that so far my understanding is learning about insurance at this point in time. Indonesia Jagadiri was the first company to move ahead with WhatsApp as a channel. So I think you took the decision six months back. And certainly, that channel of communication helps in a different way altogether. Wherein I saw that multiple of my other friends should have come to Netcore in terms of talking about WhatsApp as the channel. However, I think by the time they finalize the possibility of the Covid situation will not no longer be there. So I think one of the first and fastest mover advantages. Certainly, Jagadiri has in terms of utilizing the complete digital ecosystem, and again to congratulate that the Digital Transformation at Jagadiri is led by the c-suite at the company, not by Covid. That is something which is really great at this point in time.
Yuda Wirawan: Yes it’s good
Prashant Pramhans: So considering the future perspective and long-term I think it helps.
Saket Kumar Jha: I would like to thank Yuda for sharing this valuable insight. I think we have touched on multiple phases. Thanks for your invite.
Yuda Wirawan: Thank you so much.
Saket Kumar Jha: Have a good day. I wish you all the luck right at this time.
Prashant Pramhans: Thank you so much for you guys. Stay safe I think you are in nature’s lap being in Bogor. So you are in a better situation than me being in Jakarta.
Yuda Wirawan: Alright, thank you.
