E-commerce Series: Episode 1- Why and How Personalization is a Crucial Driver for E-commerce Success

Tim Moran (Host): Hello, everyone, welcome to another exciting episode of the MarcTechno Beat, a specially curated podcast series powered by Netcore Solutions. Here’s where you gain cutting-edge insights from leading marketers, product champions, and Martech influencers on all thing’s user growth, engagement, retention, and A.I.-led personalization. We’re now a month into the New Year and we plan to freshen things up a little bit. Over the course of the next few episodes, we’re going to be talking to global e-commerce experts and thought leaders to get their insights into the biggest personalization trends in twenty, twenty-one, and beyond. I’m your host, Tim Moran, and today I’m joined by very special guest Kunle Campbell, good to meet you. Great to finally get to chat with you.

Kunle (Guest): Hey, thank you so much for having me on here. It’s an absolute pleasure.

Tim Moran: Yeah, just for everyone’s reference, Kunle is an outsourced e-commerce chief marketing officer, an adviser to a range of direct-to-consumer product businesses. Kunle coaches’ ambitious retail teams focused on unlocking growth through acquisition, customer lifetime value, user experience optimization. He’s also the host of the two X E-Commerce podcast and has interviewed over two hundred and fifty direct-to-consumer e-commerce leaders. Again, welcome Kunle glad to have you aboard for this episode. We haven’t met before today, but I have followed your work for quite some time. I wonder if you might just take them a little bit of an opportunity to explain to those in the audience who aren’t familiar with what an outsourced chief marketing officer is and a little more about your very, I’d like to say interesting and diverse background.

Kunle: Right. So, thank you all starts out with two x e-commerce, actually what it’s all about. You know, it’s kind of like a poppa’s driven community for ambitious leaders of e-commerce brands seeking to deliver value to markets and audiences they serve. So, it’s it starts up with a podcast and then it narrows down into a small community. I run email newsletters to them and a trickle of them actually work with me directly. My background was in digital markets and I used to do a lot of acquisitions in the past. And now how I closely coach and work with these e-commerce businesses is essentially in acquisition. You know what? The acquisition strategy is based on a community or community-focused, you know, acquisition strategy, as well as retain retention, which again, is based on the community that your kind of like e-commerce businesses I work with. So, from like five million in revenue to about 50 million in revenue. What you find on the lowest scale is pure place. You know, people paid taxes in the lower end or lower scale of things. And then they are more like established retailers looking to start to sell digitally direct to their customers through like a digital transformation strategy. And then I coached their teams to go towards that path because they need a combination of talent, a combination of quality, of a change in culture, new processes and doing the right tools and, you know, actions to taken. And that’s where I play. So, I typically have an engagement for a few months or a year and, you know, just witness a transformation you live in. And that gets me really excited.

Tim Moran: I think that’s super interesting and a large part of our audience does, I think, fall within that five-to-50-million-dollar business manager of business activities. So, I think that there’s to be a lot of great nuggets that they’ll be able to source today, because I think a lot of the challenges, they face within that range are the same. Just maybe the thought that there’s a lack of options in advance, marketing strategy, personalization and customization strategy that maybe some of the quote unquote, big boys might have in the marketplace. I personally think that’s not the case, and I hope we’re able to uncover some of that with you today. OK, great. So, today’s episode, we’re going to basically talk about Deep dive insights on how pure play, e-commerce and direct to consumer e-commerce brands can unlock new waves of user growth. You use the terms, acquisition and retention that is just so appropriate because that’s the crux of modern business today. But the growth within that area, conversion retention with the power of personalized customer experience is at scale. It’s truly that that one-to-one interaction that you can create as a marketer with your customers or potential customers. But again, doing that on masse. Right. And making it super impactful. So, how should we jump right into it?

Kunle: Let’s do it. Let’s do it.

Tim Moran: All right. All right. So, hopefully this is a good one to start with. You know, basically, for starters, could you walk us through, you know, just what you’ve seen at some of the changes of e-commerce over the past handful of years and where you think we are today? So, me of the highlights.

Kunle: Okay, so I think when you say the last 10 years, two things just come to mind. And these have been I’d say they’ve been marathons in a way they and everybody views them as an overnight success. So, the first one, you know, Shopify was founded. Not many people know this was it was founded in 2004 and they didn’t really get traction until about 2012. A lot of people think it was, you know, was founded like 2012, 2013. So, they slogged it out and were able to build a platform that has democratized e-commerce. Now, I remember back in 2006, actually, 2009, when I was working with, I started to work with e-commerce businesses in 2009, it was in a different capacity. It was more around the searching of such markets in, you know, space. And I remember the huge barriers to starting an e-commerce business. You know, first things first, you needed an I.T. manager. Every business I worked with at the time had an I.T. manager. Why? Because of the complexity, the platform complexities. You know, there at the time, everything was a bit too complex. And, you know, WordPress was still trying to, you know, figure out that Wu comments thing. And it was a bit clunky. Still is, in my opinion. And Shopify comes on and essentially democratizes the entire ecosystem. And today, three point six million stores across the world run on Shopify. It is a million businesses, right. They’ve grown. I think that they’re about one point five billion in revenue. Besides that, it’s really the impact, you know, so in this pandemic world on my high street, you know, it could have like an artisan, it’s a quarter an artisan furniture maker who’s now accessing not just our village, but the world through one Shopify, through Shopify store and through marketplaces, essentially. So, Shopify has been massive. The second tsunami or second big elephant in the room, which you cannot ignore, is Amazon again, not an overnight success. Jeff Bezos always said, you know, always talked about that. The long-term benefits, you know, looking at the second and third order, you know, consequences of things rather than just looking for the quick profits that he has proven and shown, especially again in the pandemic. You know, how dominant, you know, and, you know, Amazon is and I like hates them or like them, they deliver value. So, that’s what the last ten years is. If You dig deeper and you look at the sophistication in e-commerce, you know what has happened. We have seen a one too many to a one too few to a one to one. You know, basically the way the best of the best of best-in-class e-commerce businesses have sort of evolved have has been their approach to to customers, you know, essentially. And it has really transformed really from that one to many, one to a few and one to one in terms of, you know, communicating in an automated, smart way. And, you know, that is what it looks like. And besides, that’s what underneath all of that is, is really social media and the ability to reach directly a market directly, one to one to talk to customers out there.

Tim Moran: Yeah, that’s tremendous and it is clear that the opportunities for online businesses, online retailers to be able to open up a storefront has been made a lot more. The path has been made a lot more straightforward is believed by the trailblazers of, as you mentioned, Shopify and Amazon. But I think there’s still a ton of challenges, right. I mean, I think that there’s a ton of challenges. As you mentioned, the shift from one to many to one to one, and the potential avenues in which marketers can use to begin to create those connections and conversions is the number of choices can almost be paralyzing. I think that, you know, there’s a great fear that if a business owner or a manager of a business feels that a company is progressing on some kind of a line, that it’s almost like they don’t want to rock the boat, especially in 2020. 2020 to pandemic’s put a tremendous spotlight on e-commerce. I mean, we basically have seen a massive, tremendous growth in e-commerce online out of necessity, almost. People are locked at home while customer acquisition. It’s the notable challenge. I wonder what you think the biggest challenges that e-commerce players are combating in terms of customer engagement and retention and how they could potentially be overcoming some of that almost analysis, paralysis and choices of ways in which are tools that they can use to grow online.

Kunle: Attention, so attention is a big, huge challenge of the minute, just being meaningful enough, you know, delivering a meaningful relationship or a meaningful message in these times to your customers as a commercial concern. That emotionally connects to your customers and retains their engagement or attention over a long over a sustained period of time that will deliver a habit forming. Transactional relationship with your brand, essentially, but you can’t look at it from a transaction, first perspective, you need to figure out how to deliver a very meaningful relationship. I had Alex Biller, who’s the founder of Postscripts, come on my podcast, Smack Bang in the middle of the pandemic. It was still in the pandemic back in September or October last year. And one of the things he mentioned, because they run like an SMS once one SMS automation platform called postscripts. And what he mentioned was like some brands are really doing well. We’re just pinging their customers by text message. How are you doing? How you feeling? You know, and sometimes when you connect up the feeling level, you create likability, you create rapport, and you actually bridge a relationship that is very hard to be disrupted, you know, from competitors or, you know, other alternatives, essentially. So, people need to be empathetic, and now there’s no better time to be empathetic. Think about it like the reason why I have the milkman deliver my milk to me is not because his milk, the milk is cheaper. It is really because I have a relationship with him, I know his family, I know he’s local and I’m supported, you know, someone who’s local here to me, I go into the supermarket, to the grocery store and buy milk cheaper. Yes, there’s the convenience again, which he brings it to my doorstep. But to be honest, I you know, I order groceries to my doorstep anyway. But there’s this the moments he he’s communicated, whether unconsciously or consciously, the economy, the micro economy and building around me, it resonates with me. And so, I engage with him both at a human level and to transactional level. It’s a commercial level. And if e-commerce businesses can learn those fundamentals, it would it would just change the way they have relationships with their customers. Same thing with the local brand shop, you know, so it’s really thinking locally on a global scale, you know, with emotions, essentially.

Tim Moran: Yeah, that’s really interesting, it’s thinking locally on a global scale, I think ties back to something you mentioned earlier about that one-to-one conversation you could be having. And it’s also interesting when you bring up the fact that marketers need to be empathetic in their communications to bridge that relationship. I think a lot of marketers today understand the need to make that connection on an emotional level, because that’s truly where the relationships are being formed, both business and personal. But I think a lot of marketers aren’t necessarily scared to do that because more and more brands today are doing it. You know, there’s any number of brands on Twitter that you can go and follow having irreverent conversations with their customers on a daily basis. But it’s more from a broad marketing strategy trying to understand how to fit that in without making it sound too contrived or too scripted or pre rehearsed, because that I think the customers or potential customers can see right through you. Any thoughts on that?

Kunle: So, it’s also down to talent, you know. So, who you select, you know, the personality types you select to be at the front end of your business, you know? So, I’m not going to get on analysts hype, you know, personality type to manage my Twitter, the selection of talent, you know, in the forefront of markets in the way you do marketing is a range know you have people at the back end of the market and who actually planned this out. Those could be on the list. But the front end, the people actually execute. Who writes the copyrights is the. Will naturally, especially if if they believe in the cause of your business, what you do, you know why they will translate that, why in their actions, and they will not necessarily be that patronizing. They will be helpful because they believe because they feelings essentially if you get feelers at the front end as your customer service people, as your social media, you know, people, they and they believe your cause, I think you’d be a very genuine you know, you come across as very genuine, very human, you know, moving forward. But speaking of like. A major issue, I think a lot of e-commerce businesses should start to ambition what shopping would look like beyond the post pandemic. We’ll talk up. We could talk about that later.

Tim Moran:Yeah, yeah, absolutely, we certainly can get to that. And again, just to highlight the fact that it’s the right people that you need to have in place to make this work. It’s crucial. It’s so important. But beyond the right people, I think you do need to have the right tools, the right the right capabilities to be able to just draw the most out of those people that you do hire to put in place that are supremely talented in terms of one-to-one person organization. Right along those lines, it’s emerged as a major conversion and retention, but that can mean just so many different things to different brands. For e-commerce players, a product recommendation can be crucial in terms of the company’s success. In your experience, how are brands leveraging this to drive higher platform stickiness and having that one-to-one conversation showing the right products at the right time to the right customers? How is that driving stickiness, loyalty and revenue growth and your experience?

Kunle: You have to think about it from the journey as a brand to its end to end as well, I mean end to end, I mean, personalized ads proposition. So, you know, I like yoga and I’m getting really relevant ads or products, you know, to yoga, to the social media platforms for like demand creation, you know, have great customer profiling for one to one. It just is the ability of the media buyers, you know, to actually find those people who match, you know, who match your ideal customer persona. And then when he gets on to your website, you have to look at your website as a funnel, again, you know the product recommendations on the homepage, product recommendations on category pages, what you recommend on particular product pages, on the individual product pages and what you’d recommend on a post-sale, on a checkout as well as, you know, when you get to email, when email is very important. So, if you look at it holistically from an end-to-end perspective, which is the customer journey, and you have a personalization plan. You know, at every step you will maximize essentially revenue per customer, revenue per email, revenue per visits at that scale, essentially and we need to sort of put out a tweet a few days ago when I was like, you know, stop thinking traffic, you know, start thinking audiences. So, you know, it’s not about the numbers per say. It’s really about the targets in the audience from top from the top of one funnel three to two to nurture, you know, your customers, your needs, essentially. So, so it’s really important to look at personalization and also tool selection from you know, how what personalized experience is. There’s this to actually deliver. So, in the e-commerce space and email space, for instance, you know, you know, Claypool, for instance, and that their mission is one to one personalization. And they think they deliver those laws. They give you those close to help you segments close to it, to help, you know, speak to segments and a lot of cases. You could do it once one to one. Another thing is, you know, so every and every channel should have a solution, you know, to speaking one to one to two customers.

Tim Moran: Yes, I think that the consumer has become spoiled, and I’m not saying that in a derogatory sense, but they become spoiled by social media in the sense that maybe spoiled is the wrong word. But they they’ve come to expect those curated experiences. Right. Almost without knowing it. Social media platforms have begun providing just pinpoint, precise, as you mentioned, audience segmented content to customers and to their online audiences that just drive an experience that feels like it was curated for them. And frankly, I think that’s the challenge. It’s almost like the gantlet has been laid down markers and e-commerce retailers and standard retailers that they need to rise to the challenge and start creating those personalized experiences for their shoppers. It’s not enough just to have a static category listing pages or static carousels of featured items. They need to be tailored by data and there needs to be some type of logic behind it again, because their sensitivities that it can’t be too intrusive in the way that we’re understanding what that shopping behavior is. But I think that there’s enough leeway that marketers have to be able to provide those recommendations without being too intrusive into shopping behaviors. Are you seeing the same thing?

Kunle: Yes. You’ve actually made a huge point in regards to what, you know, customers, you know, largely people are used to in on social media. Everybody is then sort of funneled into silos. So, if I think a certain way, my news feed will support my thinking and it’s just a hollow chamber, essentially, where my thoughts are reinforced and I get to consume content essentially, too, with people who, you know, think like me essentially on my feet. And when I dislike it, that sends a signal back to when I dislike a post. It sends a signal back to me by my actions, essentially, not necessarily by a click, but just by how quickly I scroll past it. It sends a signal to the social media, you know, algorithms. And then they of, you know, tweak it again. And that has also transformed into shopping in how they, you know, deliver the shopping experience or shopping recommendations essentially on social media. And so that’s expectation is is rife. And in addition to what you said, I just think, like, you know, I believe copywriting will be the next big thing. So, you know, write in and, you know, creating copy that sort of aligns with what they expect to read at an emotional level again, will deliver better conversions. The only area I think that might be challenging would be like the visuals, you know, visuals and videos. And with time, I’m thinking that, you know, personalized media would be very, very possible.

Tim Moran:Absolutely, and I think that’s something that all the actors in Hollywood are worried about, the day that CGI and A.I. generated videos can replace them in movies, I think we’re seeing it with all of the Marvel superhero franchise. I’m curious to know if anyone’s done a study, how much on-screen time is actually a real human being versus try. But just to go back to your point, I have to echoed that sentiment that the customers are expecting that experience beyond copywriting, but just even just making a platform that sticky our personalization customers that utilize Netcore for just the personalization capabilities and one to one communication in conversation across sites, we found that they demand from us solutions that are easy to implement and quick to get up and running and intelligent enough to begin to understand, like you said, in the sense that you use the example of AI copywriting to understand what type of copy drives consumer. From a personalization standpoint, we’re seeing that our personalization customers demand that that A.I. natural language processing be used to purchase product catalogs so that they don’t have to do a bunch of extra work and make things right. Things in a way that they’re writing for personalization engine instead of for their audience. And it’s that balance of writing for the audience that search engines have mastered. Also, long ago when people used to try to game them, people have quickly come to understand that we just need to write like we’re speaking to one another. Personalization engines and tools need to just capitalize on the fact that we are human beings and ultimately, we are trying to make that emotional connection. I feel like you mentioned earlier and ultimately just trying to be empathetic towards the customer in the prospective customers, switching away from that and taking a deep breath. This can be a tricky one. And I have to ask you this before we go for the day. I’m just curious on your thoughts on how direct to consumer brands, in your opinion, can deliver seamless offline and online shopping experiences.

Kunle: Offline and online, just going back to all that we’ve talked about all through this conversation online has been should be essentially your who you hire from a media buying standpoint. So, from if you look at your acquisition, they will run a ton of test where let’s say we’re targeting the over 50s. Right. I remember this test will around for a fashion e-commerce business. We switched up the creatives from a 30 something-year-old man to, you know, a very handsome, you know, Sean Connery, you know, looking type, you know, Chap. We just changed it to older folks, you know, really looking good and made it aspirational for that, you know, age group and, you know, conversions three off the back of that. So, you know, who you hire from a media buying, you know, perspective should be someone who’s very empathetic to who understands, you know, more personalized, you know, acquisition, cost of acquisition, looks like who understands who your customers are, you know, what customers you’re on the hunt for. So, essentially, you spread your net in a very and in enough in it and you spread your net, you know, where you know you’re going to get, you know, a healthy catch fish and perspective. I don’t fish, but you know, that targeting is super important in and I cannot emphasize it enough on sites. One thing we didn’t even talk about was, you know, like search, you know, using on site search to dictate what kind of experience, you know, shoppers are going to have on your site. But when they get to your site to think about micro conversion, so think about, you know, how are we going to capture their email addresses so we could start to have these conversations with them even if they do not transact today? That’s super important. A lot of brands are doing it, will keep on experiment and experiment with no offer, experiments with offers at certain, you know, price points in terms of like discounts, you know, offer points, experiments without discounts, experiment, you know, with gamification, experiment with, you know, running a raffle, you know, experiment with giving an e-book experiment to see how best can we capture email addresses, because that’s where the conversation actually starts. You need to start winning your list, you know, and start capturing, you know, SMS is to try to test that channel. Now, when it comes to on site, you know, when it comes to on site experiences, you know, think about the entire funnel from your home page, as you alluded to, the carousels to your headlines. You could maybe split test headlines, you know, based on traffic sources. So, you know, a I would argue to say a lead coming from Google is more qualified than a lead coming from Pinterest or Facebook. So, you know, if they’re more qualified from a Google perspective, especially from a new perspective, should they really be seeing the headlines, your general headlines? So, things like that, think about traffic sources, think about how you’re going to personalize those experiences on site. And then from a from a transactional standpoint that I wrote an article for big commerce, which is like personalization pricing, you know, thinking about pricing as a, you know, as a as another front. So, based on device type, you know, based on location, for instance, you and you could maximize margin or just, you know, just acquire people faster, acquire customers faster off the back of, you know, just implement and their solutions off the back of that thing. There’s a tool called Reprice or something. And Amazon do use it, you know, based on, you know, what other competitors are used to the really big players in this space. You know, look at the competitors and also, you know, run dynamic pricing is what is actually called dynamic pricing rather than personalized pricing. And I think that in itself is a hack, a twenty million plus, you know, business can, you know, implement really, really quickly that will, you know, really move the needle from a conversion rate optimization standpoint. Finally, just the understanding RFM to the core, the difference between all the ten million and ten million plus businesses is ten million plus businesses and revenue, you know, the RFM, which is recency frequency of monetary value, and they have these algorithms basically they set rules on with RFM in their email, you know, acquisition or any other any other ones to one, you know, marketing communication channel that they use. Now offline for a day to see the chances are you’re not going to be selling at a retailer. Right. As a retail, you know, you need to. Also, think about the unboxing experience, the delivery experience, you’d also need to think about how you could offline send them postcards, you know, personalized postcards. There are also solutions, again, for one to one personalization with postcards, with direct mail. So, you know, thinking about people who’ve lapsed, you know, off the back of your funnel and sending them postcards and in addition to emails or SMS is just to remind them that you exist or to give them one offer to bring them back into the loop is super important. So, it is really segment and it starts out with segmenting. The first step is segment. And once you get the insight from the segments, you could further segment. It’s in in theory. In practice, it’s essentially one to one. It’s really speaking to segments and then fine tuning until you get to position in terms of communication with your customers. I hope I didn’t go to long.

Tim Moran: No, no, not at all. And that one to one. And, you know, as you just mentioned, certain strategies don’t have to be one to one necessarily. They could be one too few or one to a segment because there can be a lot of commonalities within this segment without the need of having to go as granular to the one-to-one level, as long as that feel and the emotion of a personalized experience is there for the shopper. I think that’s super important. And you did mention personalization in a few different areas just in that last topic, personalization and search, even personalization in pricing, dynamic pricing. This is something that Broadway itself, besides Amazon, has had tremendous experience. I think that that got a lot of highlights with the Joel Hamilton and how they would adjust their pricing based on supply and demand of seats going forward on that particular topic. I mean, so many areas in which marketers can personalize experiences, so many different things to focus on. What do you think are the three biggest e-commerce personalization trends that you foresee picking up speed in 2021 and beyond?

Kunle: 2021, there’s definitely going to be a lot ahead. So, it’s definitely going to be a lot of just AI you know, in general, you know, artificial intelligence, you know, giving a machine or, you know, giving an algorithm the ability to learn. I had Julianne and he’s a growth hacker out of the Ciac system called Georgia’s. And he’s worked for Apple for many years. Basically, growth coming into this Valley base, San Francisco based group of hacker. And he was talking about a system in which you have your marketers working right. And you have a coworker that’s a machine in any way that’s learning, you know, the way you know, they’re setting up the flows, the way, you know, the setting up charts, you know, the chat flows, what have you. And when the workers leave, AI learned has learned from them and just takes over overnight. So, it’s that. Synergy between machine and, you know, marketers and bringing me to the point again. Excuse me, please. I’m an acquisition person and it takes me to Facebook, Facebook and Apple, as you know, are not in very good terms at the moment. So, what’s happening is, you know, Apple does want to restrict or, you know, give a prompt. To all its users when IOS14 to to let them know that they’re being tracked by Facebook who like who doesn’t know and if they opt outs, essentially Facebook will no longer have access to data. And I was on a webinar, so Facebook is not very happy with it. They put up ads and on New York Times and many other newspapers. And I think that fact, ironically, violent anti-trust lawsuits against Apple. Let’s see how that goes. But to get to the point, what the marketers or what the Facebook groups were talking about over that webinar was the fact that as much as there’s going to be a big data whole, Facebook is using machine learning and the AI to bridge that gap, that data. So, we still, with predictive analytics, still be able to build a profile and determine to very high accuracy the actions that particularly they’ve sent to your website might have taken as much as they would not put it in the reports because it’s not factual. They’ll put it in the algorithms to continue to strengthen their recommendations engine. So, you’d see that, you know, based off on actions people take, machines are very unemotional in processing those actions. And if, you know, written or programed well, they will bridge gaps. Essentially, they’ll do it better than us. So, I also think in the world of media buying, there is going to be more automation. And where what will determine better media buying houses or agents is essentially will be those who can, you know, focus on creatives, you know, more emotive, who can produce more emotive creativity because machines can’t necessarily, you know, go for a shoot or, you know, take the best photographs. However, machines can determine which on emotionally which works best. So, just synergy, building synergy between humans and machine will be very important. It’s not as necessarily a battle. As many, you know, were put it, it’s really evolutionary is really taken that collaborative step or just taking the steps together collaboratively to towards delivering more value. And that’s going to translate from the top of the funnel down through to, you know, websites, you know, DTC websites. And I really think, you know, Adrian Copywriting will be the next big thing. It might not crystallize in 2021, but I think in 2022 and 2023 be a thing about, you know, I’ll be asking you what you know, what a copyright told you use. It’s kind of like, you know, what e-commerce platform. You know, you’re running shapefile, you know, Salesforce, Cloud or or Magento. It would be something like that just because machines know can learn and they think they would learn not just what you put in, but what people are doing, how people interact with that, and they will be able to restructure or, you know, create very close some alternatives to what’s working and then split test in real time. So, but that is going to be at scale or that’s already being done at scale. How that’s going to filter down to, you know, the media is will be just a matter of time.

Tim Moran: Yeah, couldn’t like that. That’s excellent, and it’s an excellent summation and you’ve said a lot and there’s so much more to cover than we have time for here today. We’ve learned about A.I. driving, personalization, A.I. driven copywriting. We’ve learned about empathetic marketers. We’ve even learned that 20 20 was so strange that Facebook was forced to take out traditional media ads in the newspapers that they tried to kill to yell at Apple. There’s a lot to impact here. For more on this conversation and to learn more about your thoughts into these topics, what can the audience find? Where can they hear more of your thoughts?

Kunle: I’m speaking one to one to get me directly, one to one with them with hardly any friction would be. Would be Twitter, my handle is just Kunle Campbell and I also hang out on LinkedIn, but my response is a bit delayed on that. Well, I’d love to connect you to either way. And then if you want to, you know, get through to my podcast, just type out two e-commerce on any of your, you know, podcasting apps, including YouTube, and you’d find, you know, over 300, you know, episodes on there to binge on.

Tim Moran: It’ll give some people time to binge on some notable content instead of Netflix.

Kunle: Exactly. A huge alternative to that because I have today.

Tim Moran: Yeah, that’s excellent. Well, actually, I can’t thank you enough for taking the time to join us today. And I have to say it was a pleasure to finally get to meet you. Pleasure. Thank you for being here. There were, you know, a big a big thank you to our listeners for tuning in for more leading-edge marketing conversations like this with market leaders, like could they be sure to subscribe or follow the Martechno beat and it’s cool. I mentioned before, wherever podcasts might be found or at Netcorecloud.com. And also, be sure to follow Kunle to E Commerce podcast as well as to follow him on Twitter and be sure to watch this space well.